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[pabrain]

I would value your input regarding the following verses of Scripture,  
 
Mat 13:10 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" 
Mat 13:11 And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 
Mat 13:12 "For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 
Mat 13:13 "This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 
Mat 13:14 "Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: 'You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. 
Mat 13:15 "'For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.'     
 
I cannot believe that Jesus spoke in parables in order that some people would not be saved, if that's what "heal" means ?
 
Thank you.   
 
Edwin.   

[Marnie]

Wow Edwin, too bad you don't come to our church.  Mike did a whole series on the "mystery" parables of Matthew 13! 

The disciples, who were Jews, wondered why Jesus was teaching in parables.  Jesus told them that the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven had been given to them, the Jews, but not to the rest of the world, the Gentiles.   And yet, many Jews did not understand the mysteries of the Kingdom, as demonstrated by His rejection.  Verse 12 sets forth a principle that the one who has will be given more, but the one who does not have will lose what little he has.  This principle, naturally works in the world of finance:  if a person has money they are able to invest it and make more but if a person has little money they can lose it all if an emergency arises.  In the spiritual realm, to the one who had some basic spiritual understanding, more knowledge and understanding would be given to them through the teachings of Christ.  He was teaching in parables, not to confuse anybody but so that those already had understanding might add to it.

The fact that some did not grasp His parables was not the fault of Jesus, but of willful ignorance on the part of the listener; note the action is on the part of the ignorant person?

 ?they have closed their eyes (verse 15)

What is it that causes a person to hear the Word of God yet not grasp it?  Simply this:  willful ignorance.  For the disciples, and of course for true believers, verse 16 is the key?

 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

http://witzend.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/rising-above-average-the-25-rule/

[pabrain]

Thank you Marnie for your reply in which you quote Mike's words,   
 
"Jesus told them that the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven had been given to them, the Jews, but not to the rest of the world, the Gentiles".   
 
How does this square with ?,  
 
Jhn 10:16 "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.  
 
Bless you both.   
 
Edwin.

[Marnie]

That's the whole point.  The Jews had been given the Kingdom, but because they rejected the King, He turned and made the offer to the Gentiles, who accepted it.  Because the Jews willingly refused to listen, they lost what little truth they had been given.

Now, if you are asking about the "one fold," we know that while nationally Israel has lost the Kingdom, for now, individual Jews may experience salvation; in that respect, both saved Jews and saved Gentiles make up the one fold. 

We must distinguish between national Israel and individual Jews. 

Again, from Mike's notes:

Actions speak louder than words, and with chapter 13 we need to note what Jesus did before studying what He said:  He left the house and sat by the lake.  The symbolism here cannot be missed:  ?the house? may have been Peter?s home in Capernaum, but it is symbolic of the house of Israel.  Jesus then ?sat by the sea,? which was the normal position for a teacher to take during that time, but the sea is also symbolic of Gentile nations elsewhere in Scripture.  Jesus Christ, in Matthew 13, is symbolically leaving Israel because they had rejected Him and His message and He now turns to the world at large and He needs to explain to them?to us, really?what the Kingdom of Heaven is all about.

Thank you Marnie for your reply in which you quote Mike's words,   
 
"Jesus told them that the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven had been given to them, the Jews, but not to the rest of the world, the Gentiles".   
 
How does this square with ?,  
 
Jhn 10:16 "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.  
 
Bless you both.   
 
Edwin.

[Cindy]

Wow!  Very cool stuff! 

[pabrain]

Thank you ladies for your comments which I find most informative.  
 
Beforehand I would have said,   
 
"It would appear that "these people" to whom our Lord refers are, (because of their condition), just not able to turn, but if they could, then He would heal them, and therefore I detect bitter disappointment in His voice."   
 
Now in view of what you have said, I believe that what He is really saying is,   
 
"Humans are divided into two groups, namely those who want to know the "Truth", and those who don't care about the truth, and for that reason I speak in parables, for I know that the first group will ask questions, and the second group will not."   
 
I could of course be wrong, and for this reason I would value your comments.   
 
Thank you. 
 
Edwin.

[Marnie]

Edwin,

In Scripture, three classes of people are addressed:  Jews, Gentiles, the Church.  In the Gospels, the Church had not yet been founded, so two classes of people are dealt with:  Jews and Gentiles.  The Kingdom had been given to the Jews, but because they rejected it, and its King, it was given to the Gentiles; ie, Kingdom truths were revealed to them.  When Christ returns, "all Israel will be saved," meaning the nation of Israel will be restored to its proper place within G-d's plan.  For now, though, Israel's eyes are veiled to the truth, which is why Jesus spoke in parables--to show that what little knowledge they once had had been taken away from them--and which is why it is so difficult to win a Jew to Christ.  It does happen, I am proof of that, but I say it is more difficult because our eyes are shut to the truth.

So in a sense you are correct, there are "two groups," but those two groups are divided along ethnic lines, Jew and Gentile.

No members are chatting

I would value your input regarding the following verses of Scripture,  :
 :
Mat 12910 Then the disciples came and said to him, ":Why do you speak to them in parables?": :
Mat 12911 And he answered them, ":To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. :
Mat 12914 ":For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. :
Mat 12912 ":This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. :
Mat 12915 ":Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says9 :You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. :
Mat 12916 "::For this people:s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.: :  :  :
 :
I cannot believe that Jesus spoke in parables in order that some people would not be saved, if that:s what ":heal": means ?
 :
Thank you. :  :
 :
Edwin. :  :

Thank you Marnie for your reply in which you quote Mike:s words, :  :
 :
":Jesus told them that the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven had been given to them, the Jews, but not to the rest of the world, the Gentiles":. :  :
 :
How does this square with ?,  :
 :
Jhn 10917 ":And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.  :
 :
Bless you both. :  :
 :
Edwin.

Wow! : Very cool stuff! :

Edwin,

In Scripture, three classes of people are addressed9 : Jews, Gentiles, the Church. : In the Gospels, the Church had not yet been founded, so two classes of people are dealt with9 : Jews and Gentiles. : The Kingdom had been given to the Jews, but because they rejected it, and its King, it was given to the Gentiles: ie, Kingdom truths were revealed to them. : When Christ returns, ":all Israel will be saved,": meaning the nation of Israel will be restored to its proper place within G-d:s plan. : For now, though, Israel:s eyes are veiled to the truth, which is why Jesus spoke in parables--to show that what little knowledge they once had had been taken away from them--and which is why it is so difficult to win a Jew to Christ. : It does happen, I am proof of that, but I say it is more difficult because our eyes are shut to the truth.

So in a sense you are correct, there are ":two groups,": but those two groups are divided along ethnic lines, Jew and Gentile.

No members are chatting

I would value your input regarding the following verses of Scripture,  :
 :
Mat 12910 Then the disciples came and said to him, ":Why do you speak to them in parables?": :
Mat 12911 And he answered them, ":To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. :
Mat 12914 ":For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. :
Mat 12912 ":This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. :
Mat 12915 ":Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says9 :You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. :
Mat 12916 "::For this people:s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.: :  :  :
 :
I cannot believe that Jesus spoke in parables in order that some people would not be saved, if that:s what ":heal": means ?
 :
Thank you. :  :
 :
Edwin. :  :

Thank you Marnie for your reply in which you quote Mike:s words, :  :
 :
":Jesus told them that the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven had been given to them, the Jews, but not to the rest of the world, the Gentiles":. :  :
 :
How does this square with ?,  :
 :
Jhn 10917 ":And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.  :
 :
Bless you both. :  :
 :
Edwin.

Wow! : Very cool stuff! :

Edwin,

In Scripture, three classes of people are addressed9 : Jews, Gentiles, the Church. : In the Gospels, the Church had not yet been founded, so two classes of people are dealt with9 : Jews and Gentiles. : The Kingdom had been given to the Jews, but because they rejected it, and its King, it was given to the Gentiles: ie, Kingdom truths were revealed to them. : When Christ returns, ":all Israel will be saved,": meaning the nation of Israel will be restored to its proper place within G-d:s plan. : For now, though, Israel:s eyes are veiled to the truth, which is why Jesus spoke in parables--to show that what little knowledge they once had had been taken away from them--and which is why it is so difficult to win a Jew to Christ. : It does happen, I am proof of that, but I say it is more difficult because our eyes are shut to the truth.

So in a sense you are correct, there are ":two groups,": but those two groups are divided along ethnic lines, Jew and Gentile.